Hello and welcome.

My name is Christopher Chandler.

And my name is Chris Schauer.

And we are Generally American.

In our podcast, we discuss events,
culture, whatever else we want from a

generally American perspective.

From our differing viewpoints, our goal is
that we can offer others and ourselves

nuanced opinions on fascinating topics
related to the U .S.

We invite you to be part of the discussion
and we hope that you'll stick around to

see where the conversation takes us.

So let's dive in.

and we're live we're back we sure are yeah
how was that extra week and pretty good

yeah we haven't been on a very good
schedule for the past couple of weeks i

guess it's my fault because i got sick at
the beginning of april i was gonna say may

i think i got sick at the beginning of
april then i moved last week so now we're

in a new apartment finally

I still have to clean the old apartment,
but...

So hopefully things will settle down and
we'll be on a regular schedule until I go

to the US in July.

Yes, we are inconsistently consistent.

So, we'll always be back in some form.

Yeah, but we're definitely here.

So I definitely missed it.

But sticking with tradition...

I'm still more or less in the same city.

Well, I'm actually in the city next over,
so it's like two miles from where I used

to live.

So the weather is pretty much the same.

However, there are a boatload of trees
around my apartment, which is awesome

because the apartment is incredibly cool
even when it gets hot.

So even when it gets up there into like
the 80s and 90s Fahrenheit or like the 20s

and 30s and Celsius.

it's still pretty cool here.

It's been raining a lot though.

but because there are a lot of trees here,
I hear a lot of birds and I found out that

we live near an airport.

joy.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's about like five or 10
miles out.

but I, we definitely hear the blades a lot
around here.

not like a normal place.

So my wife and I were sitting in our bed.

And like, is that a plane?

I was like, yeah, I think that's a plane.

So we hear like three or four planes a
day.

It's not too loud, but it's definitely
noticeable.

And there's a church right down the
street.

So we hear the bells every morning at
seven.

my, they actually ring them every morning.

Yeah.

Now, now that you mention it, I don't know
if I've actually heard church bells

before.

they ring them all the time, but it's
beautiful, honestly.

I don't actually mind it.

It's part of the culture, I would say.

So it's not too invasive.

And they do this seven days a week.

I don't know if they do it every single
day, but they definitely do it every

Sunday.

And then I think once a day, I can't
remember the times though.

It's different for each for each church.

I was gonna say I know it defeats the
point, but I'm fine Monday through Friday.

I work at 6am.

That's fine.

Do not wake me up at 7 a on Sunday or I'm
gonna start thinking some questionable

things.

Yeah.

In some cities they actually have like the
Muslim called a prayer, which is something

you have to get used to.

I used to work in a city where they would
do that five times a day and it was very

loud.

So.

Cause they do with like a megaphone and
it's pretty loud, but I prefer the church

bells.

But yeah, so that's the weather report
here.

Well, I'm kind of jealous of the rain.

We've gotten a little bit here, but it's
always, it's always hard to get a good

sustained rain.

I think we've had one or two.

Spring has been trying really hard to
break on through.

We're about to go into a week of a lot of
wind and gray and.

Probably spots of rain here and there.

But that is just how it is this time of
year.

And I can already kind of see on the 10
day forecast.

Once we get on the other side of it, I
think we're going to be getting

consistently mid 70s for our high for a
little bit.

And then hopefully June comes and it's
warm because I'm tired of it.

It's that annoying part in the year where
I want to put away my jacket.

but it's just cold enough sometimes that I
need it out sometimes.

Speaking of spring, finally I'm gonna get
like, I'm gonna do an allergy test next

week.

So.

the act, the one where they put you on
your stomach and they prick your back?

Yeah, something like that.

Or my arm, I don't remember.

Well, if they're testing enough things,
they're gonna use your whole back.

My wife has been asking me for like, for
the better part of like 10 years now to do

it.

And every spring I die because of my
allergies and I just refuse to go.

Well, if it's, if it's, I don't know if
they do this over there, but they might

put you on a series of allergy shots.

Yeah, I don't know.

It'll be a surprise.

So I'll let everyone know.

And if they, so when I started allergy
shots as a kid, they had me come in twice

a week and each time I would get two
shots.

And then the longer you do it,

they up the potency and then you come in
like once a week and then once every two

weeks and then eventually it's done.

Yeah, they talked about that, you know,
like increasing like your sensitivity or

decreasing your sensitivity.

I can't remember.

It works really well and it's like a
permanent for life thing.

So I hope so.

But with that being said, we're into the
main topic, which is what is it?

Which is.

the gig economy.

The gig economy.

So it does kind of fit in with a couple of
topics that we've kind of talked about,

like with food and tipping, but not
directly.

And technology to an extent.

That's definitely true.

So how would you define like, well, so
like, what is a gig?

I guess we could start there.

Like, what is a gig in of itself?

So I feel like, excuse me, I feel like the
term gig has been kind of

I don't want to say hijacked, but the
primary definition of it has changed over

recent years.

So I would say gig used to just be like a
casual way to refer to a job.

Or if you were in the music industry or
you were some kind of performer and like,

hey, I got a gig over at so -and -so
theater, like, hey, you got a job to go

play at the theater.

Cool.

And...

I think that's kind of where the gig
economy took it from is like, Hey, it's

sporadic work.

You take it where you can get it.

nowadays, I think it also means, work when
you want to.

So if you want to open one of the gig
apps, Uber, Uber eats, door dash, I'm

forgetting the grocery shopping ones, but
there's plenty of grocery shopping ones.

You just open it, say you're ready or you
schedule a time and you can go.

And that's the big selling point these
days is the work when you want.

Isn't that like the same thing as
freelance though?

I mean, it is from a, I mean, I I've done
it.

the, the paperwork I got, the tax
paperwork I got was for, a 10 99

independent contractor.

So it's as far as the government's
concerned, you're self -employed.

Yeah, that's a, that's a really good way
actually to refer to a gig.

definitely when I was growing up, like a
lot of these things, a lot of these apps

didn't exist.

I mean, the concept of a smartphone didn't
really exist anyway, so there are no apps.

but I guess for me and my understanding, a
gig was more or less like an odd job you

would do.

Or as you said, it was something like
related to music, you know, you're going

to go perform on stage somewhere with your
band.

That would be your gig.

And this whole term of like gig economy
has really taken off in the past couple of

years, especially during the pandemic.

I think it's kind of funny that we
attached the word economy to it.

it's definitely fitting because it's in of
itself, its own world, basically.

absolutely.

And there's just like everything else,
there's market trends and there's hotspots

and, trends and all these things that they
have to worry about.

And I think.

The biggest one is probably Uber, the one
that really started that you mentioned.

And it's funny because Uber is basically a
taxi service for like a better term.

and because of that, they've had like a
lot of beef with like the established taxi

industries in various cities in the U S.

I've personally never used it.

I've never used.

any of any of those apps like Uber or
Lyft.

However, like a lot of my family members
do use it and talk about a lot when I'm in

the US.

What is your experience?

So I only really use it for when I'm on
vacation.

Because I don't you know, I'm not the I'm
not a person that goes out and drinks a

ton and you know, needs help to get home a
lot.

it's been interesting to watch the
evolution.

I think I've mentioned this before, but
I've been to Las Vegas like four or five

times now.

And the first time I was there was
something like 2016, 2017.

And I definitely saw more taxis than
anything else.

And then every time after even all the
signage and all the casinos is Uber slash

Lyft slash taxi.

Like.

You see the word taxi less and less
basically see almost no taxis picking

people up.

Like it's the it's the new normal.

It feels like taxis are dead.

I'd be curious to see how that is in some
place like New York, where it was such a

like hailing a cab.

Yeah, it was such a big thing.

And part of the part of the hailing a cab
thing was, you know, you could just do it

when you needed it.

But the public transit over there is also
really good.

So maybe it's.

Not that big of a deal.

I mean, neither of us are from New York,
but I would, I would say it's safe to say

that the whole like, hailing a cab and
like cab culture, taxi culture is a fixed

part of like the cultural landscape of New
York.

correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't taxi
driver take place in New York?

Famous movie.

my gosh.

I think so.

I haven't seen the movie, but I know of
the movie.

Let me double check.

Cause I don't want to say anything that's
wrong, but,

It is a super famous movie.

Yeah, it does take place in New York City
like everything else.

It's a psycho thriller from like the 70s.

Go and watch it.

Super interesting.

But yeah, but the whole movie is basically
about a taxi driver and the things that

ensue.

So like the taxi culture there is super
important.

And as you said, public transportation is
very important in New York.

Not so much in other parts of the US,
especially not where I'm from.

I mean, every time I go back, it's pretty
much the same.

I remember Boston's being really good, but
I haven't been to Boston in about 20

years.

I've never been to Boston either.

I want to say it's a great town, but I
don't know how discerning 10 year old me

was.

Yeah, but it's, I guess the reason why I
mentioned that is do you feel like there's

any difference between like Uber and just
getting like a regular taxi?

or a hundred percent.

Really?

Like what?

So I have been in a taxi.

I've never ordered a taxi and I've been in
a taxi maybe four or five times in my

life.

So my dad, who is like.

He's a very comfortable person.

He finds what he likes and he sticks with
it.

And even after like Uber and those things
started taking off, he had certain taxi

drivers he like.

and there were taxi services in town.

So you could call them when he wanted to
go out drinking for a night.

He would call them and sometimes he would
sit at home for 50, 60 minutes waiting for

the taxi to come.

wow.

And, you know, he would just they tell him
it's going to be 50, 60 minutes and he'd

just, you know, grab a beer from the
fridge and, you know, get started on the

night.

And he was fine with that.

And then he finally got pushed into.

Like, look how easy this is, look how much
better this is.

And even it even got him to switch.

And it's one of those things, like I feel
like I can kind of use my dad as a

measuring stick.

If even he's willing to give it a try,
like get step out of his comfort zone for

it.

It's probably a good sign that this is
like a new, a new normal, or at least

something worth taking a look at.

I like that's.

Just thinking about it now, like I can't
even imagine like calling a taxi service

and waiting an hour.

That just is horrible.

Honestly, it is kind of mind boggling.

Like I've ordered a taxi plenty of times
here.

Generally they're pretty quick.

But truth be told, I only ever use a taxi
when I go to the airport.

So you have to kind of order those at the
end of vans or at least you should because

you run the rest of them being booked out
and then you're just kind of.

out of luck there.

But I guess one of the other differences
between like Uber and just like regular

taxis is as we alluded to earlier, it's a
gig.

So like you're self -employed and you're
more or less at the mercy of the customers

in terms of getting paid.

Because as I understand it, they're
heavily reliant on tips, aren't they?

Yes.

So I have

So I have done DoorDash and I've done Uber
Eats.

I technically qualified to do normal Uber,
but it just wasn't something I wanted to

do.

Just kind of judging on the pay breakouts
from Uber Eats and DoorDash, Uber pays you

a little bit better base, I'm guessing.

But something like DoorDash, they can pay
you as low as $2 for a delivery.

Which is basically nothing.

Yeah.

And the way those work is you kind of,
it's like a game basically.

So it'll send something to your phone.

And I haven't done DoorDash in years, so
these may have changed a little bit, but

this is how it was.

If it was $7 or more, they might be hiding
the tip.

So let's say it was, they send you a, hey,
we'll pay you $7.

to go to McDonald's and deliver this three
miles total, right?

There might be hidden tip in there.

And that's how they incentivize you to try
and take things.

Because like, it could be a $50 tip.

And every now and again, you would get
someone who just decided to make someone's

day and do like a crazy tip.

But sometimes, or a lot of the time, those
cheap orders, they get rejected.

and then they would go back into the pool.

DoorDash would add a quarter, 25 cents to
the pay and send it to the next driver.

And they keep doing that until someone
says yes.

So the people who don't tip on their
orders, their food usually takes a while

to get there and it comes cold.

And that is just so odd to me that
everything is...

I don't want to say it's an honor system
because it's not really actually an honor

system, but it kind of feels like that
because it's basically nothing gets done

unless you pay gratuity.

And that's pretty much how the whole
system, like all these gigs work.

So it's not like you're, you work for this
app and they give you, I don't know, like

$15 now or whatever.

And that's it.

It's basically, you get like a low pay and
you pray that you get tips from them.

which is definitely getting out of hand.

And every time I go back to the US, it
gets worse and worse and worse about how

much you're supposed to tip and who you're
supposed to tip.

Definitely not a fan.

Yeah.

And there's the screens these days where
you can put your credit card in, but it

always has a tip question on it.

And I don't love it, but I understand the
reality.

of like tipping servers.

So, you know, I understand if I'm going
out to eat, I'm tipping 20%.

I don't think I've ever not tipped 20%.

Like, I feel like the server would have to
like punch me in the face for me to not

just auto 20%.

Like that's just how it is.

But it is crazy going somewhere like, like
a poke bowl shop or like a burrito shop or

a subway and...

you having to tip for that.

Like, I know you had to do the work, but
that is that's your job.

Like I've been a cook.

I didn't get tips.

And it takes me it took me longer to make
those things than, you know, putting

slices of sandwich meat and toppings on a
sandwich and wrapping it.

Yeah, I mean, I went to the US last time I
was there was in 2022.

So almost about about two years ago.

And I'll never forget that I ordered a
sandwich at

can't remember it some store in like the
airport and they turned the screen to me

and on screen was like would you like the
tip I was like like what for like I just

ordered food like if I didn't do anything
special I just gave them my order paid 20

bucks or 15 bucks whatever it was and they
wanted 20 % on top of that which to me is

just asinine that's

It's definitely, there's definitely like a
lot of fatigue involved.

And so that's one of the biggest problems
of like a lot of these gig things is, you

know, if you go to like certain
neighborhoods or certain types of

customers, you couldn't really make a lot
of money, but it's really like you're at

the mercy of fate basically.

but kind of going back to Uber a little
bit, I think it's really interesting

because for all intents and purposes, it's
perfectly legal in the U S so like,

Although a lot of the taxi cab companies
have striked against or because of Uber

saying that it's not fair.

because as far as I know, the taxi drivers
have to be licensed.

So you have to like, you know, have a
license field to be a taxi driver in the U

S and the same is true in Germany.

So you can't like, you can't just like
sign up for an app and just drive your car

here.

Like that doesn't work like that.

but in the U S they're a little bit more
lax.

And so Uber tried to, I'm not up to date
on this, but I definitely know that they

got in a lot of trouble in Frankfurt
because Uber just basically came over

here, they set up shop and they didn't
care about the laws and they just let

people drive.

And Germany is very strict, like really
strict about these things.

And basically you have people just driving
as taxi drivers with no insurance.

So if they get like in an accident or
something,

then, you know, like I said, they're just
kind of out of luck.

And so I think Uber was banned in Germany
from operating for a while.

Then they came back, then they got banned
again.

And now I think they're only allowed to
operate in like certain cities.

But Uber is pretty much like non -existent
here outside of like the bigger cities.

That's interesting, especially if it's on
for an insurance reason.

So.

When I got active with DoorDash and Uber,
they basically make you take a picture of

your driver's license and your insurance,
and it has to get verified before they'll

let you drive.

But they verify you as a person, not
necessarily if you have qualifications.

yeah.

I mean, they'll let basically anyone do
it.

They just drivers license and insurance if
you can do that.

And they do also make you submit what your
car is and the because they don't want

older cars.

They want you to have a nicer car.

Mm hmm.

And there's different tiers of Uber and
Lyft service.

So if you have like a

like a really nice luxury, you know, many
seated vehicle.

You qualify for some more expensive rides.

I didn't know that.

so I don't, I double checked.

so everything I said about Uber in Germany
is correct, but, they were forced to

operate as, and they still are as like a
legal taxi company.

the way a lot of these gig.

app work is it's basically like a
marketplace.

I would like to refer to it like that is
they provide you with the platform.

They get you a gig and then they take a
percentage of that.

But in Germany, Uber has to operate as
like a regular taxi service.

And so I think they have a different name
here.

I don't know what it is.

but because we have public transportation
in Europe, not just Germany, these things

aren't really that attractive.

I can't remember the last time that I
don't know if I've ever heard of anyone

ever ordering anything like a Lyft or Uber
here.

It's either you take your bike, you take a
train or you just call a taxi, like a

regular taxi.

It does seem like a extremely American
thing.

It's definitely, I think a lot of these
things are very American.

Like a lot of these like gig economy
things that kind of exist in the US and

they spill over into like other countries.

So bringing it back to something I've
talked about before.

what I do working in the world of freight
brokerage.

Uber, DoorDash, all these things are
basically how the freight brokerage market

has operated on a micro scale.

okay.

So in both instances, you are hiring an
entity, not as an employee, just as for a

single gig, for a one -time use to go to
someplace, pick something up.

Deliver it to another place.

That thing is being either food or a
passenger.

And just like in the, in the world of
freight brokerage, there are certain

standards, depending on the market you're
in, where perhaps $2 a mile to drive from

St.

Louis to somewhere in Florida might be
horrible, but maybe driving $2 a mile from

Florida to St.

Louis, that might be good.

The same...

and you would kind of know like, I don't
want to pick up from that place, that's

awful, but that place is worth dealing
with.

Blah blah blah.

The same thing would kind of happen on a
micro scale, especially for DoorDash, when

it tells you, hey you're gonna go pick up
like an Arby's meal.

Because you get a feeling for, okay, seven
dollars for two miles, that's probably

worth it, but seven dollars for seven
miles.

probably not worth it.

And you were like, well, last time I was
at Arby's, it took 40 minutes.

So that's not worth my time.

Or, McDonald's, they're super fast.

They're great.

I'll take this for a little bit cheaper
than I normally would.

It really is funny, because I've mentioned
this before, but when I interviewed for my

first free brokerage job,

I brought up my experience with DoorDash
and kind of how I saw it.

And I had no idea.

I was basically describing the entire
industry on a micro scale.

It's, it really is like one to one it's.

And the freight brokerage industry was a
thing that, I think has been in our

country for about 40 years.

I think it was, it was a big change in how
the industry did it.

And not necessarily for the best, but it
is what it is.

I really do wonder if when these things
initially took off, if that's kind of what

they looked at, because, you know, from a
zoomed out perspective, it's all

logistics.

It's all just a logistical business.

That honestly, that's a really good way of
looking at it.

I've never thought about that way.

the way I've always looked at a lot of
these gig economy things or gig jobs, or

sorry, gig, like apps or companies is
there.

They don't want to really employ people
because people cost money.

They want to give you the opportunity to
earn money and take a cut of that.

And I think it's pretty much the same with
like the freight industry, the way you

described it is that they don't
necessarily want to employ the drivers

because keeping somebody, you know, on
staff costs a lot of money.

But just offering them like a job here or
a job there, you know, is I would say a

lot cheaper.

Yeah.

And the mentality of it from like the from
like the door dash or from like a freight

brokerage standpoint is like, you know,
people will say like, well, why?

Why should you get a cut?

You know, I'm doing all the work.

And then the the cynical and pretty
dismissive answer that is usually in the

tracking world from freight brokerages is
usually you're right.

Why don't you go get your own customers?

Why don't you go secure that business?

Go ahead.

And a lot of them do and a lot of them are
good at it.

Some of them aren't, but you know, I can't
just call McDonald's and be like, hey, I

got 30 minutes free.

You got any deliveries needing to be done?

Like, that's not gonna happen.

Yeah, most likely it isn't and it's really
about having access to customers access to

like the platforms because I Mean, yeah,
if you go back to like uber or like door -

or like What is it the one called like
grub hub?

Yeah, there's grub.

There's a don't have customers when you
don't really have a job so many weird ones

You know it cuts both ways I'll let you
finish you know

We are having some issues today.

Yeah, kind of weird.

Did you hear what I said at the end?

I did not.

I said, do you know like what the cut is
for a lot of these apps?

Like what they take when they offer people
like jobs or gigs?

Well, it's tough.

I don't.

So they pretty infamously, most of them
operate at a loss.

That's right.

That's right.

Because a lot of them are they market
themselves more as tech companies than

than I mean, they operate as a logistical
company.

But a lot of these a lot of these things
are basically like tech companies that do

logistics and they're building up value.

It's like an it's like an idea like
Netflix ran out of deficit forever.

And I think

They very occasionally turn a profit.

They're like the only streaming service
that turns a profit, but like they're

super valuable.

Same with how Twitter used to be.

I'm not saying that.

Same with how Twitter used to be.

Uber, I'm pretty sure always operates at a
loss.

There was actually some controversy.

I remember when I still kind of paid
attention to that world where they, people

thought that they were cutting into their
tips.

DoorDash was, I, they, the official
company statement was absolutely not tips

are only for the driver.

And to be honest, the amount I saw for
tips was usually pretty consistent with,

how much.

You know, it's you'd get a $5 tip.

You're not getting like a, a 477 tip
usually, you know, so I didn't really buy

that, but there was a lot of, distrust out
there.

Yeah, that's another big problem.

There's a lot of like a theft, tip theft.

There we go.

Yes.

A lot of wage theft.

We can kind of like move beyond like these
typical apps because there are a lot of

other platforms that also provide like
people like with gigs.

I don't know if you're familiar with
things like websites like Upwork.

Yes.

So I actually.

I have a friend, I don't know which one he
did, but it's one of those gig apps where

people basically outsource office work to
you.

Like, hey, I need this spreadsheet done or
something like that.

So he would do that.

Yeah.

So you have like Upwork and I don't know,
and Fiverr, there you go.

I was trying to think of the other name,
which, you know, like with Uber, Lyft,

Grubhub, all these apps, it involves you
physically going somewhere and doing

something.

Whereas Upwork and Fiverr, they don't
really necessarily make you go anywhere.

Have you ever used them?

No, but I also, I don't know if you're, so
I more think of Fiverr as like a celebrity

cameo thing.

Like you can,

pay a celebrity or someone to like record
a funny video or something for you.

I know there's a different, that's a
different website.

I know what you're thinking about, but I
don't know.

Can't you do that on Fiverr too?

You can pretty much do anything on Fiverr.

This isn't like a paid ad or anything.

Hashtag not an ad.

Hashtag could be an ad.

Yeah, it could be an ad.

No, I'm double checking.

The website you're referring to is called
Cameo.

I know about Cameo.

Yeah.

But on Fiverr, it's just basically you
post a job and someone applies for it.

And it can be really anything as long as
it's legal.

I'll just put as long as it's legal.

And Upwork is like the same thing.

I tried to use both websites.

I found them to be awful because every
time I tried to sign up for them, I was

overrun by bots.

I kept getting like fake job offers from
like...

some random bots from like a bunch of
different countries.

And so it just kind of killed my
motivation.

But for those who kind of stick it out, I
tried twice and I failed.

There's a lot of money to be had.

So I think people are, especially because
of the pandemic and like with like the

furloughs and layoffs and all that, people
are really trying to figure out like, how

can I fend for myself?

Like, how can I be independent?

And companies are trying to...

reduce their dependency on like workers
because of their liability and they cost

money.

They sure do.

The gig economy, like it's convenient for
consumer and the people participating in

it.

It is not a good thing overall.

Like there are some people that do these
things full time and they make great

money.

They don't have insurance.

They don't, you know, they don't have a
lot of protections.

They don't have paid time off.

I mean,

You might be making more in cash, but it
can, it can add up.

That is the thing is that they're not
employees.

So that's really you're in it for the
money and nothing else.

So you have no security.

You have no protection.

you're pretty much just on your own.

Yeah.

I totaled my card doing door dash.

you should have mentioned that at the
beginning.

Honestly, I don't know how I'm only
thinking of that now, but yeah, I was, I

was making a delivery.

and a high school kid turned out in front
of me on a blinking yellow arrow and I T

-boned him.

And it wasn't that bad of an accident.

I saw him and hit the brakes, but my car
was still totaled out.

And I was door dashing full, as my only
source of income at that time.

And I had auto insurance, so I got a
rental and I door dashed a little bit in

the rental, but it definitely put a...

It definitely put a ding in my income for
a while.

And yeah, I mean, that's that's just one
of the risks you take.

And then, of course, wear and tear on your
vehicle.

They don't they don't pay for that.

And they're not paying for your gas.

I think Uber had some like.

I remember when I signed up, you could get
like deals on tires and repairs.

at certain locations, but you had to be
like a certain tier of drivers.

So like the more drives you did, you like
leveled up because these apps are very

gamified.

Like there's all these stats and goals to
meet just to try to like push the, you

know, the monkey brain inside of all of
us.

It likes to see the numbers go up.

But I don't know, I kind of enjoyed that
part of it, but it is...

It's usually not in your favor to do that.

And they would, they would do bonuses
sometimes, like, hey, here's basically

like a game quest.

If you can fulfill these parameters,
you'll get a little bonus.

Yeah, that's an interesting point.

I don't think I ever did.

That's an interesting point you bring up
is that everything has to be a game.

Like all of the social media apps, like
the gig apps, they're all structured like

games.

The dating apps as well.

I believe the founder of Tinder said that
he modeled Tinder after like poker or like

card games because like the swiping and
everything to make it more addictive.

So a lot of these things are super geared
towards people who want to game.

sorry.

Go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say for me, it's a
bit too silly.

I don't know how you feel about it though.

So I don't mind when it's not used for
evil.

Right.

So like I have two fitness apps on my
phone, my fitness pal and Fitbit for my

Fitbit.

And they are both pretty gamified, but
it's not like it's trying to

squeeze money out of me.

I mean, I pay for premium on both of them,
but it's not like, do this thing that's

against your interest and your, you'll
score a better point.

Like, no, I mean, it just like my Fitbit
app, you know, assigns a readiness score

to me every day, depending on how much
sleep I got and how much exercise I did

yesterday, things like that.

And, you know, it logs how many days of
the week I've done exercise and how many

hours of the day I've been active.

Like that's fine.

Like, I don't think there's anything wrong
with that.

And the part of me that likes to see
things get completed is motivated by that

to do better.

Well, I mean, that's harmless.

but like a lot of these apps use.

yeah.

More often than not, it's for evil.

Yeah, it's definitely for evil.

It's absolutely not, not good.

And.

Before I forget, you mentioned DoorDash
and Uber Eats back during COVID.

Yeah.

So that's when I was the most active and
that was such a bizarre time.

I mean, I know it was a bizarre time for
all of us, but I would go into, first of

all, it was really the only option there
was to get a lot of this food.

So the business was pretty good and it was
that.

It was kind of in that kumbaya period of
COVID where everyone was, you know,

staying home.

Yeah.

Stay home, watch tiger King, blah, blah,
blah.

We are the world.

videos getting uploaded.

So people tip pretty good.

It was so, it was so bizarre.

You go into these restaurants, all pretty
much all the lights are out.

People are like half the people working
there just wearing casual clothes.

And it was just a bunch of door dash
drivers standing around, you know, six

feet away from each other in our masks.

waiting for the food and that's how they
basically all were.

There was no sit down at the restaurant.

Yeah, I definitely remember that.

So we don't really have like, obviously we
have like food delivery here.

it's definitely not as prevalent or
present as it is in the U S.

we have our groceries brought to us.

So like there's a service here called
picnic that you can use and they bring you

your groceries, but they're not like gig
employees, like they're employees of the

company.

So like they're actual workers, like
they're.

If you want to be more American, they're
W2.

They're like 1099.

Yeah, like old school pizza delivery guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they're like real workers.

So like, we don't have like really a
tipping culture here.

So like when they bring us our food, we
give them like, like two or three bucks,

which would cause which would cause like a
lot of outcry in the US.

But here, it's not really that big of a
deal, which

encourages us to order more from the
company.

because we're not paying 20 % for our
groceries.

I couldn't imagine ordering a hundred
dollars in groceries and paying 20 % of

that.

And I couldn't do it.

That's, that's a lot of money.

well, and those groceries are the way
these apps work.

They, they upcharge on everything.

That's how they make their money.

Like you can, it's funny.

So you could pull up, like you could pull
up McDonald's on Uber Eats, for example.

And then you can pull up the McDonald's
app and look at things like one -to -one.

And it's all more expensive on the
delivery app.

Cause that's where they make their money.

Yeah.

And that is definitely, it's funny that we
mentioned that towards the end, but yeah,

that's definitely where they get you is
you pay for the convenience.

and I think like with a lot of these gig
things, the only people who really went to

the customers, because they pay for the
convenience.

And a lot of the money doesn't really end
up in the pockets of the people who are

actually providing the service.

but I couldn't imagine doing, I mean, I
have respect for people who do it, whether

or not they have a choice, but I couldn't
imagine just doing a job and not knowing

what you're going to get at the end.

so it's kind of like Russian roulette.

I mean, it was kind of fun in that extent,
like,

I was financially secure enough that it
wasn't like, I need to make X dollars

today or I'm not making rent.

I am.

That's probably awful.

But I was in an okay enough spot where it
was like, I, it said $7 on this one.

And I know that that means there's
probably hidden money.

I wonder what it's going to be.

And there was, there was one time where it
was $7 and one cent, like someone tipped a

penny.

but that's nasty, but it was like,

It was it could be kind of fun, like
because sometimes you got that $30 tip and

you you rode that high.

It was it was kind of like gambling in a
way.

And.

Yeah, but you know, but just like
gambling, the house always wins, so you're

never really going to come out on top.

No, and I will say as far as work goes,
like you spent most of the time in your

car listening to podcasts or music.

I actually remember.

the day I had my car totaled, I was
listening to a true crime podcast.

I don't think I ever went back to it.

probably just cause it one, it wasn't that
great.

And two, it was like, I don't usually
associate bad memories with things and

like, I can kind of logic through it.

It was like, man, I'm not going back to
this.

Okay.

Podcast that I wrecked my car listening
to.

I hope nobody out there has gotten in a
car wreck listening to ours.

I hope not either.

I hope we only provide good memories, good
feelings.

But yeah, Tangent of Tangents.

It was a true crime podcast and I just
remember them being like, true crime is

fascinating, but there are people who like
almost sound like too enamored with it.

Like they get excited.

And I kind of got that vibe from them and
I'm like, that feels weird.

Like, let's not like cheer this on or like
have too much fun with it.

That's definitely true.

Yeah.

I think about it a lot.

but that's very interesting topic.

We should definitely touch on that in the
new future.

And then, one thing I did want to talk
about, we talked about this a couple of

weeks ago and it kind of loops into what
we're talking about now with these gig

apps.

with how expensive, especially, I don't
know how it is internationally, but

inflation of food prices is like way over
standard inflation in the US.

So like a lot of fast food places have
like doubled in price in recent years.

And it's just about like what it costs to
eat at a sit down restaurant.

And if you tack a delivery fee,

delivery upcharge, delivery service
charge, because there's somehow always

something to tack on, plus delivery tip.

You could do a McDonald's order for one
person.

That could be like $25, $30.

It's insane.

So I think a lot of like how we talked
about before, people are going to be,

people are eating less fast food.

People are definitely having less fast
food delivered.

Yeah, I definitely do not eat a lot of
fast food.

I definitely don't eat McDonald's.

It's way too expensive.

Honestly, fast food in Europe is
incredibly expensive compared to the US.

I'd like to say it's better in terms of
quality.

I don't actually believe that though, but
sometimes it feels like it is.

It's probably mostly about the same.

Again, I think the only, there's like
three things here that are still

reasonable.

It's like Subway, Wendy's and Taco Bell.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

And I can't really say I want to pay to
have any of those things delivered to me.

Yeah, on a final note, because we're
coming to a close here, my wife and I were

driving home and we saw someone delivering
McDonald's.

So it was like the McDonald's car.

So like McDonald's has its own like
delivery service.

my God.

That's hilarious.

It is hilarious because when I was a
child, I was like, how cool would it be to

have McDonald's delivered like pizza gets
delivered?

You know, that was just like a fantasy of
mine as a kid.

Because like why don't they deliver like
McDonald's or Burger King because they

deliver pizza.

And now my dream has come true, but I
don't actually care anymore.

And it's yeah, so like Burger King,
McDonald's, they have their own delivery

service here.

That's like the that's that's the whole
thing when you're a kid, you'd like to eat

candy for every meal.

And then when you become an adult, you
choose not to.

This is like the fast food version of
that.

One thing I did want to tack on before we
leave, I guess this is more of a tip, I

guess.

So like I said, DoorDash orders shows
projected total pay to drivers before they

accept the order.

So if you don't tip or you tip low on a
DoorDash order, there's a very good chance

your food's going to take a while.

Now you should in the U .S.

tip them something, but...

If you're ordering an Uber driver or Uber
Eats, you tip after the fact.

So you're not going to have, you're
probably not going to have your order

bounced around to a million drivers
waiting for your food on Uber.

And Uber drivers are more incentivized for
their metrics and their tiers to accept

more stuff.

So if for some reason you really don't
want to tip that much, Uber's the service

for you.

Well, you heard it.

Yeah, the glowing review.

Yeah.

All right.

So with that being said, I don't have
anything else to say.

You got your final points.

I think that was my final.

All right.

Sorry again for being gone so long.

So hopefully we'll be on a regular
schedule up until I leave at the end of

July.

Thanks so much for listening.

Stay safe and we'll catch you all the next
one.

Bye.

All right.

Bye.

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